In a sea of pink, Ailie Banks has created an illustrated world championed by strong, bold femme beauties of all persuasions. Activism is integral to Ailie’s creative practise, from larger social commentary to specific advocacy and awareness, all of Ailie Bank’s work carries a bold and highly valuable message. 

Art came hand in hand with existence from the start for Banks, with an artist mum to thank for that! Because of this innate connection, art would often serve as a necessary tool of escapism for Ailie in her younger years, a mechanism she uses to this day. Through her art practise Banks explores her personal adversity, feminism, disenfranchisement with the systems that be and privilege within those systems. The combination of pink and boss femme characters is an affront to the long held unrealistic standards thrust upon women regarding how they present, act, or exist. Throwing expectation to the wind, Ailie has carved herself an unmistakable style. 

These days Ailie is working as an artist and also as a violence prevention worker at the Blue Mountains Women’s Health and Resource Centre on a number of projects and campaigns. For any younger Blue Mountains family reading, Ailie runs a free creative program for women and non binary folk under 25 called Art Space at the aforementioned Resource Centre in Katoomba. Find more details about that at @artspace_bmwhrc. Ailie also works on the youth based Evie (Ending violence, improving equality) project, which serves as a space for young people of any gender identity to discuss gender equity and things that affect their lives. Check out more about Evie @evie_equality. 

We walked away from this interview having learnt so much, empowered by this knowledge we’re delighted to share the interview with you! Huge thank you to Ailie for welcoming us into her studio space and so insightfully sharing with us. There is an extended version of the Ailie Banks x Hypnotics interview available via our Hypnotics Family which you can check out on our patreon. Otherwise, enjoy this jam packed interview in video form on our YouTube or keep reading down below if you’re on a bus and forgot your headphones. 

Hey
Hi!

Nice to meet you!
Nice to meet you!

Sick studio space that you’ve got
Yes, it’s a cave.

Nice little cave though, a colourful cave
A colourful, vine ridden, little bit of mould cave haha

Alright so I’ve been a mad fan of your work and specifically the angle of advocacy and awareness that you bring with your work for a long time and this is a huge honour, been a bit nervous about it haha
What?! Ohhhh you don’t know me!

But I knew with those nerves that it was gonna be fine. I just really love your art!
Don’t let the internet trick you man, put people on a pedestal when really they’re living in a mould vine dungeon. And I cleaned up, you know? So, it’s fine.

So about your art and advocacy, where did those things start to interconnect?

Well always. So, I guess I’ll give you a run down on like… so I’ve been doing art forever. My mum is an artist. Drawing and painting and creating has just been a part of my life, not a big deal. But you know, I dealt with some lovely childhood trauma and I drew my way through it basically. I was obsessed with Sailor Moon and Daria and they were my big forms of escape. And so drawing these kinds of badass characters who may have been dealing with some hectic shit but could get through it and potentially beat someone up was like a really important coping mechanism for me. I found that, so it kind of started as a coping mechanism for myself which often art that means anything to anyone else is using quite a personal thing for the person. When I started putting it out in the world, you know, people were gaining their own empowerment from the images I was making and I always have had this kind of balance going on where I’m very passionate about art and I do my art thing but I’m also really passionate about advocacy, feminism, talking about mental health and that kind of side. So they have always intertwined. Now they intertwine more than ever because I do a part time job in the community now which isn’t art based. It’s kind of community service based and it has really solidified that I always want to do both.

It’s like they’re inherently connected.
Exactly. And I feel like art is activism. Because if it’s not a manufactured, paid for commission piece or something for an agency or advertising campaign. If it’s coming from a pure individual place then it’s, I dunno, there’s something that’s inherently activist about that because you’re putting something deeply personal out into the world and it’s about risk taking, it’s self expression and sometimes challenging biases and norms and I think yeah.

As opposed to uplifting the economic structures of capitalism and the patriarchy etc.
Which we have to do! I’ve worked for big companies, I need that work but you know, yeah i think when anyones making anything authentically, it’s an activist move, if they’re putting it out or even if they’re not putting it out.

Tell me about your new position at the Blue Mountains Women’s Health and Resource Centre! And at the Art Space?
Well that is a tac on. So I got hired at the BMWHC on something called the Evie Project which stands for ending violence, improving equality. There was a group of young activists from the blue mountains and I got brought on kind of as a contractor at the beginning of the process and then long story short I’ve ended up carving out a position and taking over the majority of that project three days a week. So I sit on a bunch of boards and I sit in a lot of meetings now - which is fine. I go to the CAVA meetings which is the coalition against violence and abuse that sits up here and the council and lots of other services are on that and we plan out days of action and campaigns and stuff like that for within the community. I do the evie insta project which is our youth based project which is giving young people a platform up here to talk about gender equality and things that affect their lives. That’s open to all genders it just happens to be the girls that wanna do it. Probably because they’re the most affected by it, maybe. We also have - and I don’t run this one - but we have something called the Mudji Women’s Group. Which is a group of Aboriginal Elder women who make art and talk about really good things and they’re heaps great. And a bunch of other cool shit but technically I’m a violence prevention worker and so I’m producing a bunch of resources for the centre and for everywhere else about the prevention of violence and then I do Art Space. Which is a seperate but not separate kind of thing. I just run the Art Space for young women and non binary people at the centre on a Thursday and it’s super fun.

Are you guys drawing together or?
So we kind of schedule it out because that’s how I run my life so we did candle bending, we follow a lot of Tik Tok trends ya know trying to be “cool” with the kids. So we did like jewelry making and candle bending and we’re gonna do tie dying and basically it’s like a soft entry point into the centre. So they come hang out with me, I feed em, we make stuff but if they want to access counselling or the health nurse, during that time for free we can facilitate how that happens. So we’re kind of encouraging and that also covers the Evie stuff cause we have really important conversations, you know, particularly with young girls about gender equity and about how they might start to experience sexism. Which they do at the age of 12/13, it’s wild. But we kind of facilitate conversations there as well. So that’s a big thing that’s going on at the moment but that potentially ends in June so if you see this and you are on the council or the committee, make sure I keep a job.

Yes, that shouldn't even be in the question!
Well, we’ll see. So I’m doing that and I’m fitting this around that.

Totally! So all this stuff with your personal art journey has just exploded and skyrocketed in the last couple of years, you’re an author, you’ve got a book! Tell me about the process of when you decided to make the Book of Bitch…
How did that go… that was actually wild. So look, I was just making things, doing things. Actually the majority of time when I first started posting things to instagram I was having a full mental breakdown, I was off work, I was on Centrelink. I had medical exemptions because I was having a really hard time and I was doing the thing I know how to do which was to draw my way through it. Except the difference was when I was in therapy and doing all the things… I’m still in therapy and going to therapy it’s very important. I just started posting what I was drawing because I just started doing it and it started gaining some attention which is cool. The big kind of kick off point was Teen Vogue got in touch. Which, this is the wildness of the internet, so I was in my little cave with less shit around cause I couldn't afford anything but yeah Teen Vogue somehow got in touch and wanted to do an interview and post some of my work and they did that and then I started to get noticed. I got noticed by a literary agent and then they asked me if I wanted to do a book and I had to have it done within six months. So I quit my job, I was working at a terrible, terrible, exploitative retail place at the time and being very upset and having panic attacks before work and I quit and then I made this *Ailie holds up the Book of Bitch* and I spent like, I just basically worked my ass off for like five months straight and it was really hectic and I was sitting here for like hours and hours and hours. But I made the thing, here’s the thing and it got published and I’m very proud of it. And I would love to do another one but I just keep filling my life with heaps of things.

What do you think number two would be about? Continuation of the same concept or different?
More writing. So this one, there’s a little bit of writing at the start which you know, kind of did get edited down a bit. And kind of got watered down because when you publish a book, and you’re a first time author, it goes through a bunch of people. Everyone has to like it and the fact that they let me put bitch all over it, is great. But you know, they kind of decide who the demographic of it’s going to be and you have to kind of tailor the whole piece, not tailor it but water it down a bit. But it’s fine BUT moving forward I would love to do another one. I guess maybe talking more about the mental health side of things because that has been something that has been a huge huge part of my life and I feel like I’ve come quite a long way with it. I feel like there’s a lot of creative energy towards creating pieces around that and maybe talking about the intertwining of art and mental health and how they’re so linked. So that’s a potential. And to be fair, my publisher and literary agent are amazing women. They totally back really cool weird ideas and I’ve flagged it with them probably a long time ago being like “I wanna do another one!” and they were like “do it!”. Like shit I gotta do it. It’s on the horizon but you kind of have to, I don’t know how your creative process works, but I’m a big thinker. I spend a lot of time, most of my time in my head before anything ends out. I kind of plan it all out, it’s all living in my brain. I’m a big planner, plan it all and then that’s it. I’m kind of still going through that process internally about what it could look like but I’d love to do it. I loved the process. It was great. You just get to spend all of your time making shit. And they really, you know, the front bit got edited a little and my words got edited a little bit, nothing drastic. But they did not touch any of my art. They honestly let me draw, and that’s just the dream job cause that never happens. And it’s a reflection of the time as well. Artists go through phases of what they’re drawing and what they’re interested in and that really puts a cap on that moment in my life and my feminism at the time and what I was thinking about and believing and it is really just solidified into this little book. So I’d love to do another one just cause it’s so nice to have - it’s like a photo album kind of.

Absolutely! It’s like a series, you could have this series of your creative journey over the next decade. Imagine a cute little fade in different colours…
That’s exactly how I see it! Pastels. Hopefully, that was the dream job I enjoyed it so much. I mean the pay is alright. I’m sure if you’re bigger, you get better pay. The pay is fine but for me it is just even the luxury to cancel out emails, cancel out everything else and be like ‘this is the thing.’ For months and months on end and you kind of really get to explore the concept. You know, commission work you’re kind of onto the next, onto the next. Having to work with a lot of different concepts and ideas and people. But that was just a good five/six months of my life into that.

Did you find having a hard cover, printed in your hands that it’s so satisfying?
That’s why i got into making products, not because it makes me much money but just because the digital and social media space which I am very grateful for because it’s given me a platform can be a bit vapid. Sometimes you just need some shit that you can look at. Here is a thing that I made and it’s sitting here and I can give it to people and then they can enjoy it. And the comments of what everyone else says about it isn't relevant, it's just you and them on their own with the thing which is good. I like both but I really like making stuff. Also cause it’s way simpler man like cause you put all the work in beforehand to make all the things, hanging out and just letting people see it.

*Parts of this interview have been cut out and are available exclusively through our patreon! Check it out!*

So if the follow up to the Book of Bitch is more of the mental health side of things, what is your angle with that? Do you wanna talk a bit about your own experience?
Yep so Trigger Warning. I’m about to talk about trauma. Not in detail but it will be mentioned. So I’ve been diagnosed with Complex-PTSD, this happened a couple of years before this (the art career) happened and that has kind of been a very huge focus of my life to now. I am in therapy full time, I’ve been on and off meds. The negative impact it has had on my life has lessened so if you’re dealing with anything, it gets easier I promise you. But so basically it’s been me unpacking a lot of traumatic shit that happened when I was young. Super fun, super fun stuff haha. And that has been something that has been a really interesting juxtaposition of the perception of success that people get from the things that I’ve done. While meanwhile if you know me closely or you live with me like my poor fucking partner and dog and cat. They know that I still have really shit days and I’m very very fascinated by that juxtaposition. That you can be, if you’re living with mental illness, or even if you’re not, you can be going through something really intense. You can be on the brink of suicide at some points but perceived in this totally other way. And often willingly, like I do only project one aspect of yourself through social media and all of that kind of stuff. And I’m just really fascinated by it. I’m really interested in the juxtaposition of two opposing forces so for a long time I was fascinated with hyper femininity and strength that’s been like a huge focus of my work. And glitter and traditionally feminine aesthetic mixed with this really badass warrior mentality. And how the two coexist which has obviously come from things like Sailor Moon which is something I’m super obsessed with.

So that has been the first portion of my work and has defined the content and the way that I draw and my style and niche and whatever. But the next part of it, I’m super interested in the dichotomy of what we project and what’s actually going on where we split that. So I quite openly talk about my mental health stuff but you know, I don't think that people living with any issues are obligated to talk about it but I’m fine to do that. And I talk about childhood sexual abuse which is what I’m dealing with and all that kind of trauma shit. But it’s interesting, the kinds of conversations that happen around that and how outsiders I’ve perceived on the internet… I shouldn't be taking the internet for what the real world is, but you do… as if you put that in your bio or if you speak openly about that you just want to be special.

Oh like Virtue Signalling? I hate that mentality, it discredits and discourages people to speak honestly and truthfully.
And I know from my own experience - and I always base things off my own experience cause what else do you do -  is that I’m always looking for people like me. Particularly through my mental health shit, it was lonely and isolating and so I was looking for people that were able to function. Because the matter of fact is that when you deal with things like abuse, childhood sexual abuse, but shit topics like that and you go googling because you’ve dealt with it and you’re in the process of seeking diagnosis for what the aftermath is and blah blah blah. It’s a fucking dismal story. It’s you’re gonna be a drug addict, fucked up, not that I judge anyone who does that, everyone copes the way you’re gonna cope but the story and the narrative around that stuff is very from an outsider perspective and it’s very “this person is broken, they’re going to be broken forever, there is no cure.’ So if you’re kind of going through it and you’ve gone through that and you’re functioning but you’re… I kind of say ‘closeted’ because when you get a mental health diagnosis or if you’ve dealt with abuse or something you kind of have your own coming out process. You kind of have to, if you’re going to start healing you’ve gotta tell some people around you what’s happened.

And it can be shameful and embarrassing and you worry about people's responses… 
Totally. And it can be too much for people sometimes so that experience in itself is really isolating and it's very very easy to stay trapped within silence and isolate yourself within silence because the narrative around it is so shit. So when I was able to, after I’d gone through my process I thought okay first of all if I can express strength and I can express this stuff through art, so it’s a little less connected with my soul, kind of, I’ll put it out that way. But then as that happened I thought okay I’m getting confident, I’m going through my shit and I’m going to start speaking on it because I looked for people who were doing well and had this. Or at least were able to do something beautiful and contribute to the world and were not just defined as “broken.”

So I kind of just tried to fill the gaps that I saw and the more that I’ve done it, the more that I’ve been put into contact with other people who are doing it. And the more this whole bubble is building around how actually we aren’t broken and we’re doing some really important shit. That stuff that happened doesn't define our entire lives. And you can get to a point where it’s not this huge shame ridden thing. So that’s why I talk about it and the whole process of going through therapy and growth and blah blah blah, could be a books worth. So I really, I just don’t know how to do it yet but I feel like it’s important and it’d be a niche subject but also probably larger than we think.

I think so. This year the conversations have been really broadening about how we treat women, child sexual abuse, people like Grace Tame being Australian of the Year… just poignant proof that you need those people around speaking on it.
Also I think there’s a big healing element for me where so much of that element of abuse is about fear and silence. So there’s a real kind of ass kicking mentality towards abusers being like “I’m going to speak” because that’s not what you wanted us to do and silence kind of keeps them safe. I really think you’ve just got to meet anyone where they’re at. Talk to me eight years ago, I would have been like “I don’t know what you’re talking about.” You know what I mean? So I really understand that everyones in a different point and me speaking on it could bring up shit for other people who haven’t got to that point yet but I think that everyone needs to see something to believe that they can get there as well. So with this stuff and it is really taboo and awkward and people don’t want to talk about it… yeah.

These conversations have made me angry but yeah I’ve felt healing from it. It gives me hope that like the girls you’re working with at the BMWHRC will be given a better space. 
Yeah! And i think people and including me like to shit on social media. Look, there are good and bad sides to it, but i think the good element of it is that it’s just people putting their shit out into the void if they feel like it so there’s a really diverse range of places that people are coming from and opinions that they’re having. You get a broader spectrum of understanding the world and I really like that and I think that not everyone with abuse histories are the same or have the same opinions. Some people are going to be like “don’t speak openly about it” or whatever which is totally valid but I think for me it’s just… I don’t want to give people the impression that my mental health journey isn't a huge fucking part of my life. And honestly priority. Like therapy comes before all my work. It comes because everything and I’ve been open about my experience with medication. And that it has worked for me because there’s a lot of backwards conversations around how it’s evil and ruins your personality and all this bullshit. But it’s actually, if you’re in it, can be a really important tool and I feel like it’s important to offer my perspective. Particularly if you have a following or even just people in your own life, it’s important to be honest and authentic and realise that by covering certain aspects of your life, particularly mental health stuff, is kind of just perpetuating stigma. That it’s not something we should be talking about when it’s a huge huge… it totally rearranged my life. Focusing on it you know? And so I think I talk about it all the time. I’m very annoying with all the people close in my life like “are you in therapy, it’s good and important.”

So you’re a doer, whether it’s art related or personal health and advocacy and you’ve done the same with building a bus! As we were saying art is protest, the idea of living off the grid and being away from the norm of house again is protest, what is with you?
HAHA That is so funny, what is with me! I dunno! Ask my therapist!
Yeah I’m building a bus. Look, I’m a very solutions based person. I’m not very good with sitting with the conceptual for a long time. I'm like yeah yeah yeah BUT how is this gonna happen. Well the bus has actually just come out of necessity. Because the generations before us have fucked us over. For real though, they’ve totally fucked us over. My poor mother and elders in my life hear me. I totally am like fuck you. So the reality is if I want to do art and advocacy stuff for a living, my pay grade is not massive obviously. But I’m not willing to compromise that and also landlords are evil. I’m paying for the mould. Which is the reality of how most of us are living. I do wanna own something, I guess? I just want a space where people leave me alone. And I can make whatever I want, paint the walls but also just have a big studio where I can do what I want right? And not be at the mercy of landlords and rent hikes and all this bullshit. So I couldn't do that, the banks won't give us a mortgage without a huge deposit and they look at me and are like “No, what, what do you mean?” And I explain what I do and how I get money. So they’re very much like “no.” So I was like well I’m still going to figure it out. My partner and I have been together for like 11 years so you know, we have been talking since forever basically… He’s creative as well, he doesn't do it as a job I think because he’s watched me try to do it as a job and I’m a doer and he’s a conceptualiser so he’s like “oh shit, I don’t know if I wanna do that!” But we’ve both creatives, we’re both very part time people in terms of working. I’m fine to say that, I over work yes, but I’m not interested in a 9 to 5. Long story short, can’t get a mortgage to get a house up here, things are crazy expensive. I need to take the pressure off paying heaps of rent, save a bunch of money to convince them with my bulk of money to give me a bit more money. It was shipping container first, nup, that got nixed. Then it was tiny house but actually when you look into tiny houses they’re actually super expensive and people are selling this dream like excuse me. The tailor for your tiny house is like $100,000 or something. WHAT?

So then my friend, his place was affected in the fires and he went through all of this, we were kind of having a back and forth conversation. He was like “what don’t you get a bus because then you’ve got your wheels, your motor, walls, roof, doors, windows and you pay one set price and you could probably afford it. He has done the bus thing and gone over to WA to save his money in a bus to then buy a house here a couple of years ago. And actually retired massive school busses are mad cheap. And by mad cheap I mean we got our bus which was a 12m ex fleet bus, with the seats removed, delivered to us down where it is near Dargan for like four grand. And so we did, we bought a bus and we have been doing it up for the last year like filling it in which is way easier than trying to build walls and put windows in which we have actually had to do. But yeah, so it’s almost kind of done, kind of. You can follow it at @lucifers_charriot. But yeah it’s good. It’s really good, I’m excited to move into it. I’m excited to be free of money stress.

A huge fuck the system sort of choice.
I feel like they’ve done it to us. They critique us for living in our vans and our buses but it’s like yeah, this is called a gentrified version of homelessness like we’re only having nice buses and vans cause we’re middle class white people who can afford the original four grand for a bus or whatever. But yeah it’s just gentrified homelessness, you do what you can if you can’t get a house. All of us are paying upwards of 50% of our incomes on rent like unless you’re living in a big share house thing. Me with me fucking mental health can’t really do anymore so it’s kind of like what else are you suppose to do?

You shouldn’t have to forfeit your mental safety and more than half your income, it’s (housing) just the cyclical problem.
Well that’s where I got to, I was like well how do I even get any money? Which involved spending more money so it’s just this bullshit. And I’m very grateful and lucky that I even had the money and was able to save money for travel. You know, I’m very privileged on the spectrum of being mad about it. But there are so many people that that’s not even an option. And I’m just like, shit’s fucked. It’s in the best interest of people needing to rent for their whole lives and be at the mercy of whatever they dictate that should cost which is more and more every year. Your wages will stay the same if not, like there is so much wage theft going on. People are being fucked over, rents are being increased, of course you’re going to push people out of the system and to do their own thing. But they work really damn hard to make that not doable. The fact that I could purchase my own block of land but it’s illegal for me to live on it. It makes no sense.

It’s also very what the fuck considering the history of this country and the fact that it’s stolen land to god damn begin with and you’re telling me I can’t put a tent on it when I just paid thousand of dollars for you to pretend like it’s “mine”. Like, what?
I can’t. Ask me in three years and I’ll probably be like fighting the council on something because like what the fuck are we suppose to do?

*Parts of this interview have been cut out and are available exclusively through our patreon! Check it out!* 

There’s a lot of problems but I’m very much on, that this is a big, we need big systemic change. I really feel like there’s a big issue happening between the generations. Our generation and the generation below us have been fucked over by the older generations. It manifests in many many ways. So everything that I do is generally just in response to the older generation trying to fuck me and everyone that I love.

Art and artistic compensation…
Offt.

Oh I know right? Heavy topics, we’re going through em. What do you think can be done within the art industry to help support proper artistic compensation?
At the start of my career and even know, even though I’ve taken such a strong stance on it, I dare you to try and ask me to work for free… but it still happens sometimes. I feel like there’s this weird thing and again it’s a millennial trope like “If you enjoy doing something, why should you be paid for it? That's a hobby not a job. Even though I need it for my business and I acknowledge that it will help me make money, why should you get money for it?” In the art’s it’s rife, it’s really interesting. Particularly for artists starting out, there are heaps of exploitative practises that happen all the time where it’s like “oh you’re just starting out, this is going to help your portfolio.” And I think creative to creative I have a different rule. If you’re a creative and I’m a creative and we can mutually share skills and benefit, I’m down. But if you’re a business and you acknowledge that you need my work to help you get… In particular they often use my work to define themselves as youth friendly or feminist or whatever but you don’t wanna pay me, then we have a problem.

How’s that feminist?
Well this is part of the huge thing that I have noticed. And I have had to say this a lot to people. People will reach out to me, for example, every International Women’s Day. There’s a big flood, especially on social media, companies need to take a stand and need to align themselves with stuff. Which I’m like, fine, take that as an opportunity to highlight a bunch of women and pay them right? If you’re going to be performative at least back it up with some money. But that’s not how it goes, it often goes, “you say you care about this therefore you’re obligated to donate for this bigger cause like that’s what you’re supposed to be doing and no we don’t pay, this is a from the heart thing.” When really what it is is exploitation. That happens a lot and I’ve done a lot of IWD gigs that have paid me and paid me well as they should.

On that day of all days ya know?
But you know I’m finding that on that day of all day’s it’s actually about the labour of women. I don’t see men running around trying to hire women. Unfortunately it’s other women exploiting other women because they are probably being exploited within their job. In the arts it’s rife, the interesting thing is that established fine artists which are usually white men are getting paid so much money. They’re getting grants that are hundreds of thousands of dollars and the rest of us work off the crumbs of that quite happily. But it just doesn't happen. I feel like with illustration the people, the powers that be don’t recognise it as art or art worth paying for is a lot of ways.

It’s not an oil painting.
Yeah it’s not an oil painting, it’s not a landscape and so we also all get shown early on what art “is” and that’s the art that hangs on the walls in traditional colonised spaces and everything in between kind of doesn’t count. So yeah it’s been an interesting journey trying to convince people to pay me and pay my friends for things. But you know what’s really helped? Taking a public stance about no I won’t work for free and also every time that it pops up in my emails asking me to do something… most of the time I try to open up a conversation about it. So they can’t just put me in a box of “she’s just difficult to work with”... Like with the IWD thing, I kind of sent a longer email about like on IWD shouldn’t we be championing paying women for their time? Considering that the labour is always so uneven and unequal in every aspect. Also women, there’s still a pay gap, women are still not being paid at the same rates. It’s one of the problems that you’re asking us to speak on but you’re not actually… And I think honestly it’s just a conversation that needs to keep happening so that people understand it.

Absolutely!
Behind the scenes, me and a bunch of other Australian illustrators actually through 2020 were going to do a big campaign about it right? Together. But 2020 happened and we were like, it’s not really about us this year, people are dying so we kind of put it off. But we do have a big group chat where we flag. Honestly if you’re an exploitative company or a company that gives us all separate rates for the same job. Which they always do. They reach out to a bunch of people that could do the job, they get quotes, and they get us to bid against each other and whoever’s the lowest bidder gets the job. That’s how it works, it’s fucked.

Way to pit artists against each other.
Well they do attempt to and they make it a really competitive environment particularly for women doing art, they make it a competition. “There can only be one of you.” And so they do pit us against each other and particularly on instagram you get other random things that come up, you know deals with companies that sometimes come through. And it’s so funny, cause we all talk! And I established that group because I wanted to do the campaign but I thought let’s come together rather than be segregated and feel hard done by when someone else gets the job. For example there was this one company that was reaching out systematically to all of us. You know, Frances Canon, Ginger Taylor and all of us are in this group chat and they all wanted us to do the same thing. They were all offering us different money and blah blah blah. Lots of us were like no absolutely not and we just chatted amongst ourselves but someone was like “hey I actually really need the cash.” And we were like “Go sis, get it, negotiate higher because they’ve got it.” Or, “ask for this because that’s what they offered me.” To make it easier for them. Cause I acknowledge that there are jobs sometimes and I just have to take it. The company might be a bit crap but it’s like I need the money, I need to live so I’m going to do it. Obviously not if they’re heinous but the internet can find little bits to where everyones done something bad and that’s fine but this job, this campaign, I can’t see any issues. I need to be paid. You know, you don’t walk into Woolworths who is a terrible company on mass and get the checkout person and go “fuck you.” But that’s essentially how it works if you’re on the internet. You somehow represent that now and you’re at risk of being called out and cancelled and whatever. Which I’m lucky so far. But yeah, it was just one of those things where it was just better to just talk to each other because then we can really en masse say no to things. Cause what they benefit from is they put the feelers out and if it’s just me and a couple of us being like “this is exploitative” but another person is like “fuck I really need a job.” Which I don’t judge them for, the company go “alright, fuck all of you” and do it anyway. And then will just keep aiming for people like entry level.

This is the thing, pricing yourself is one of the hardest bits of the job. But what I would say to anyone who is entering, find a mentor. I’m not saying this to everyone because people with big followings get DM’d about shit all the time and they just can’t it’s too much of their labour but you can find people even just in life to be a mentor. Cause it’s a lesson I had to learn gradually about how to figure it all out but what I’ve found particularly in Australia… people are pretty cool. You can just be like “Hey I need help with this.” And if you’re a fellow creative and you’re out there starting and trying to do a thing. People recognise that because they had to go and do the thing. So they’ll help you, that’s what I’ve found. I always do interviews for uni projects, for thesis’s, I just sent off a bunch of work that’s going to be featured in someone’s little film that they need for props and stuff. And I’m happy to do that because when you’re starting it’s literally so hard. You have no money, you have nothing to work with. And also, I want to cultivate an environment where we’re helping each other rather than competing. There’s a really good artists resource that I’ll remember and tell you and you can pop it in somewhere.

*Check out NAVA the National Association for the Arts at the link below!* 

Someone’s already done the work about pricing and contracts and copyright and licensing and it’s all there and it’s Australian based. That’s helped but also exploitation is rife, also if you’re on the internet people just… It happens with influencers if you’re just an influencer not an artist on the internet. People just don’t think it’s your job because I think the people in power that was need a job when they were coming up. This is a hobby to them so they’re like “you’ll get what you get.” But we’re beyond the point now of even thinking that social media doesn’t play into marketing and also we’re beyond the point to think that visuals don’t play into marketing. It’s out there and it’s fucking hard. That could be another book.

Write all this down!
It’s in my head, steal that idea if you want but you know it’s kind of like the guideline of trying to being a creative for a living is really hard. And actually what it comes down to I think at the end of the day is you just have to accept that you’re not going to be rich and you have to be happy with that. that’ s just the compromise. You have a lot of supplies to buy, you have a lot of things to upkeep, a lot of subscriptions. There’s a lot of outward costs to being a creative for a living. If you land a couple of big corporate gigs like I did a job for Bonds and Benefit and stuff and they were lump sum jobs they were awesome but they’re very rare. And it’s all about your popularity at the time but doing the day to day like operationals. Doing markets and patreons and commissions and blah blah blah, you just aren’t going to be rich. I think trying to just tailor your life to accommodate that so you can do what you love is a worthwhile pursuit. But also if you need to take on a three day a week job that pays you weekly, do it! Something that I tell artists that start out now, because I didn’t do it, I just went whole hog, is keep your fucking part time job. Keep it. Help it fund your start in art because doing it the other way round is not worth the stress.

The balance is hard, when you do the job and the career but it is a lot. You go to work and then you come home and you work but being able to pay your rent makes it worth it.
The other thing is, and maybe this is unhealthy but the reality is that the hustle is part of the game. You do work all the time. But provided that you still love it, if you don’t love it don’t do it anymore. Fuck it, turn it back into a hobby because if you don’t love it anymore what are we doing? I think that if you can get your rent paid, so your like basic needs, rent and food, paid weekly while you’re establishing yourself and it’s not reliant on your work, do that. Because if it is reliant on your work, you will cry all the time and the quality of your work get compromised.

You need to be emotionally fulfilled to make art.
And sometimes you just need time to conceptualise what’s happening and capitalism doesn’t like personal time so you fill it with doing ten million other things like commission works and patreon posts and all this stuff and then you can’t actually create anything. So I think that if you can find a balance where you’re getting paid from an outside source that you don’t completely despise. Even if it’s stacking shelves at night to pay your rent, do it. I always say hold onto that job because I did it the other way round and it was fucked. And it’s only now that I have an income coming in that I can afford to upgrade my computer. I can afford to create other projects and products that require money upfront. That’s what they don’t understand, small businesses have to spend so much money upfront to get started, even started. Regardless of your talent or skill level. You have to get a website which costs a fuck load of money. It’s wild, all your subscriptions, all your shit in order. Then the bigger that you get you need to do accounting and do all this. It’s wild. But it’s worth it, once it’s set up. The more legitimate you seem the more likely you are to bring in money. Because the more people are like “oh yeah you’re a legitimate person, I’ll buy from you.” So it’s interesting but yeah, hold onto a part time job if you can. At the start for sure. If you can afford to leave it because you’re making bank, leave it. But don’t reply on that because it fluctuates a lot and your art might be trendy one minute and it isn’t the next. Let trends come and go but create authentically and I think you’ll be alright. But yeah, it’s rough

Cool! I think that’s everything, we covered a lot aye?
That was good!

Go find her, she’s amazing.
But I’ll be at the markets (Hypnosis Art Fair) today. *laughs*

TW: Abuse

This is a big topic to discuss - a complex one - and for that reason it’s probably best to start this with a disclaimer. These are just my thoughts and theorising as a non qualified human clutching at philosophies of ethics with dear life and hazard lights flashing. The concept is a question. “Can you separate the art from the artist?” It feels like this is asked more regularly nowadays - in the wake of movements like MeToo - but it’s not a new concept and there doesn’t seem to be much regular consensus. Is there a level of artistic greatness that pervades total accountability? What does that line look like? Is it possible for an artist's work to become worthy enough to excuse abuses they commit all together? What other variables come into play here? “Severity” of the abuse? Time passing since committing abuse? Death of the abuser or the victim/s? Well it’s become painfully clear that this is a Pandora's Box of questions. Time to attempt unpacking this box. 

The first unarguable thing about art, of which there are not many, is that x piece of art is influenced by its creator/s. Where they come from, who they are, who they wish they were, what they see, what they imagine. Whatever it is, it’s an extension of them and their brain. This technicality in one way answers our question. No, you cannot separate the art from the artist because the art is an extension of their imagination, story and perspective. But this is all before even bringing abuse into the framework of the concept, let alone celebrity which definitely shifts the dynamics. “Celebrity” is in essence a multifaceted spectrum of fame, opinion, power, platform and influence. The most well known artist in the world to some guitarist with a decent local following. Any level of platform elicits power whether worldwide or locally. Immediately I interpret this in connection with “power-based abuse”. Partner violence, sexual assault and stalking are all examples of power-based abuse. While these types of abuse are absolutely not exclusive to platformed people in the slightest, celebrity on any level is inherently linked to power. This power often coincides with admiration, nostalgia, associated memories and subjective enjoyment for the viewer. So when confronted with the reality of a beloved artist's abuses, an almost instinctual desire to seperate them for their art ensues. But it is this same power of celebrity that can be weaponised to abuse in the first place. 

When reaching out for some outside perspectives about this topic, one of the most common distinctions of separation was whether or not you financially contribute to a known abusers career. This is a part of the discussion that I feel the most sure about. If you’re financially contributing to a known abusers career, then that accumulated resource is used in part to facilitate abuse, obfuscate accountability or both. We all understand that with wealth and status comes power in itself. The ability to get your way in to or out of almost anything. I continued to unpack this idea and began to realise that financial support is a result of a larger framework within a career path. Financial success is reliant on viewer support. Not just in a sense of direct sales, but opportunities that arise when outsiders see things like social media follower counts, track plays or gallery visitors. Something as seemingly benign as a follow, like or stream is accumulated and becomes analytics that result in potential profit.

It goes without saying that anyone and everyone can make art, nothing is stopping them from doing so but the larger question I feel we should be asking ourselves is; should ‘we’ - collectively - platform artists that use the power they have to commit abuse? I think not. In all honesty, my knee jerk reaction to seeing or hearing art from people who I am aware have committed abuses, is most often repulsion. I imagine that person and their shitty acts and I dislike them, but that admittedly hasn’t always stopped me from enjoying or consuming their creation. In an ideal world that interaction wouldn’t benefit them, but it does even if indirectly. 

You might have a few people coming to mind as you read this, I certainly have while writing it and as usual my thoughts are ever shifting and developing. Though there is one thing I’ve started to realise in the last few weeks of national conversation about abuse and the culture that shields it. Australian of the Year, Grace Tame said it perfectly. “Evil thrives in silence.”

Written and illustrated by Iz